Got Fruit ?

Being somewhat of a technology nerd enthusiast, I peruse several technology sites from time to time.  I’m not always on the prowl for the next cutting edge story, hardware or software title as much as I simply like to stay somewhat abreast of what’s going on.  This little fascination has waned over the years however as the business of our Lord has taken more of a precedence in my life, plus the enjoyment in reading other’s perspectives in the forums is undermined by the negative comments, profanity and lack of civility that seems to abound (not all inclusive). 

Sadly, similar behavior can be experienced when visiting some of the Christian oriented blogs as well.  One of the scenarios that plays out is when an author posts a story that he or she critiques, or otherwise points out doctrinally errant teaching(s).   Comments are left open, people submit their thoughts and opinions, and then the "fun" begins.  Sooner or later the discussion turns into a debate that escalates with lines being drawn in the sand lines.  What’s disheartening, is to watch a thread grow and notice one group side with God and His Word, while others will seemingly make any and every argument as an excuse for the person, or idea criticized in the post.

Denominational differences ie; man’s traditions aside, doctrine as it is defined throughout the Bible should be the litmus test by which any and all claiming to be followers of Christ should measure all teachings.  It would seem however that in the current state of affairs that are "modern" day Christianity, there are those "believers", that when faced with the reality that their assumed favored author, pastor or life coach/self help guru is called out by discerning members of the body of Christ, they would rather make excuses for the apple of their eye.

Galatians 1:6-10
6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

10 Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Some of the sad and reaching rebuttals "heard" in response to accusations of one teaching/preaching errantly go something like…

"Well (insert name of favored mini god) has done so much for the Kingdom, they’ve bought many lost souls to God."

"Be careful, don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater."

Are these arguments even Biblical?  What’s the Biblical basis for determining that the "teacher" has in fact been instrumental in "leading" anyone to Christ?  Is it not God’s Holy Spirit whom is responsible for one’s conversion?

I must say that it’s simply amazing of the attitude that some folks will take with regard to their salvation.  Being apparently spiritually and doctrinally immature, these folks ignorantly play Russian Roulette with their souls out of adoration for men.  The sheeple "eat" so called "spiritual" food, tainted by doctrinal feces; thinking that they can nibble around the tainted pieces  and not ingest even a small amount of "poop".  Jesus warned of such things in Matthew 16.

Matthew 16:6-12
6 "Be careful," Jesus said to them. "Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees." … 12 Then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

Grace and peace be with you.

Early this evening I spent an excessive amount of time browsing the Internet.  Though not the topic of this post I’d like to point out a guy named Alonzo Rachel that has some commentary on this nation’s current state of affairs given the outcome of this year’s election results.  For the record: "No, I don’t think the sky is falling nor am I convinced that any seals in heaven have been officially broken, now that Barak Obama will become the next President of the United States." 

As it is with the "magic" of the Internet, I clicked on one link, which led to clicking on another link, and then another, and another….  Before I knew it I found myself revisiting a topic that I danced around a month or so back.  I’m referencing a short post where I announced some Po-Mo posters created and provided by Team Pyromaniacs (TP).  Now I didn’t actually get back to my own post per se, but rather ran across this post from 2007 that references the Team Pyromaniacs "crass" (CRN.info’s opinion) behavior for poking fun at the Emergent Movement through it’s Po-Mo posters.

I think it’s a good idea to make an argument for CRN.info that given a year has passed since it’s original post, it’s possible that their opinions of Team Pyro’s motives may have softened. Regardless, one point to today’s post is that reading the CRN.info post prompted me to revisit Team Pyro’s Po-Mo posters section and to reevaluate if I had in fact propagated an unloving or crass perspective.

Upon revisiting TP I’m convinced that their motives weren’t unloving or crass.  Viewing the entire selection of Po-Mo posters and taking into account my understanding of both Orthodox (traditional/historic) Christian and Emergent Church doctrine I actually see the big picture, painted by TP as an accurate reflection.  But don’t take my word for it, have a look at this article covering the EC by Sound Witness, and as always reach for The Bible as the final word and authority.

So it occurs to me that taking this position I’ll come off as being "institutionalized", fundamental, close minded, or judgmental by some folks which is fine.  The primary thoughts behind today’s post are however not to "prove" any opinion I have for the sake of being right, nor to pick at the comments of CRN.info.  The thought that occurred to me is "How should a Christian react to false teachings or doctrine?", "What attitude should a Christian take toward such teachings?" 

In Matthew 12:34-37, Jesus it seems had no problem busting a verbal cap in the butts of the Pharisees.  Take notice that Jesus is not only chastising the Pharisees but naming their transgressions in the process, which is a case of careless words spoken.  See Luke 3:7 for similar tone by John.

Matthew 12:34-37
34 You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. 35 The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. 36 But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. 37 For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."

In Galatians 1 Paul defends the Gospel, dismissing the myth makers and their mythical gospel with some not so warm and fuzzy language:

Galatians 1:8-9
8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

Finally Paul, in Galatians 5 addresses the church which has been thrown into confusion by "agitators" that are preaching circumcision as a means to justification. Though not addressing the agitators face to face notice that Paul does not mince his words.  See also 2nd Peter 2:14. ("…an accused brood!")

Galatians 5:7-12
7 You were running a good race. Who cut in on you and kept you from obeying the truth? 8 That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you. 9 "A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough." 10 I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one who is throwing you into confusion will pay the penalty, whoever he may be. 11 Brothers, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished. 12 As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

The previous Scriptures were used as examples, not to give license for being crude in behavior toward those folks that need to receive the Good news of Jesus Christ’s redemptive work on the cross.  The point was an illustration of how people that attempted to spiritually poison the body of Christ with false teachings were dealt with.  The individuals being thumped were supposed "religious" people, either in the church, infiltrating the church or masquerading as being of the church.  For anyone having problems or heartache with "sniping" false teachers perhaps this closing thought and final passages will ease your minds and present a new perspective on dealing with false teachings.  Consider that unlike The Old Testament times, we in New Testament times as believers in God are no longer required to stone people that compromise the "community".

Acts 20:29
I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock.

Jude 1:3
3 Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints.

Grace and peace be with you.

Ezekiel 18:32
32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

These are the final words of Ezekiel 18, uttered by God.  A simple command which with compliance offers life. "Repent and live!"

On Friday thoughts from Ezekiel 18 were shared regarding how God makes it clear that every man is responsible for his actions, he will suffer the consequences of his sin, not his offspring, as will he also be acknowledged for his righteousness which no one else can take nor receive credit for.

Throughout the bulk of Ezekiel 18 (verses 3-28), God explicitly tells us that the wicked man that repents from all his sinful ways will have life, while the righteous man that turns from the path of righteousness to that of the wicked man will lose his life.

Reading through this chapter of Ezekiel some thoughts and ideas concerning the  "doctrine (?)" of "once saved always saved" crossed my mind.   As New Testament believers, I know that God’s grace is the mechanism by which we are saved, in spite of our past sins and ongoing struggles with sin.  It occurs to me that we have a problem however if we take God’s grace and not properly apply the stipulation of repentance earnestly,honestly and continually to our lives.  Text from Ezekiel 18 clearly points out both the benefit of repentance as well as the consequences of not repenting.  A broader view of the book of Ezekiel in fact pointing to the impending judgement by God as an example of the consequences suffered by Israel for not turning from it’s sinful ways.

Ezekiel 14:6
6 "Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Repent! Turn from your idols and renounce all your detestable practices!

In the New Testament of the Bible we have numerous examples from Jesus Christ Himself as well as Paul exhorting us to walk the righteous walk, to not fall into the deception of living a sinful life.  Below is a brief view of some of those exhortations.

Matthew 7:13
13 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

Romans 6:1-5
1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

5 If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection.

Galatians 5:16-21
16 So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17 For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1st Thessalonians 4:7
7 For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life.

From the previous examples, and with exception to Jesus speaking in Matthew 7:13, Scripture seems to be emphatically speaking to believers in Christ.  Given that this message of repentance is repeatedly preached, I can’t help but take it to heart that our salvation is an ongoing process.  A process of being strengthened in the Lord and in His Word (the building of the relationship with Christ),versus a false implication drawn from the "once saved, always saved" idea that no matter what one’s conduct is, salvation can’t be lost. (See Matthew 7:21-23)

• We continually wrestle with the flesh (Ephesians 6:10-12)
• Our faith is constantly being challenged by Satan’s deceptions (1st Timothy 4:1)
• Doctrine is constantly under attack  (1st Timothy 4:16)
• Christians are not immune to temptation (1st Corinthians 10:13)
• Righteousness is a product of laboring in Christ (Hebrews 5:11-14, Hebrews 6:1-4)

From the Gospel of Mark, Jesus calls to the people…

Mark 1:15
15 "The time has come," he said. "The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news!"

Grace and peace be with you.

For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men,
I would not be a bondservant of Christ.
Galatians 1:10

At times you will have to make a choice between pleasing God and pleasing those around you, for God’s ways are not man’s ways (Isa. 55:8 - 9). As important as it is to strive for good relations with others, it is even more important to maintain a stead fast and obedient relationship with Christ. Disobeying God to keep peace with other people is never wise. Peace with God is always paramount.

Jesus warned that obeying Him might cause division in your relationships (Matt. 10: 35-36). If Paul’s primary goal had been to please others, he would never have become an apostle of Jesus Christ. Paul went completely against the wishes of his colleagues in order to obey Christ. At times, obedience to God sets family members at odds with each other (Matt. 1-:35-36). When you follow Jesus’ Lordship, your family may misunderstand, or even oppose you, yet your obedience to God reflect your identity as His child. Jesus said that those who obey His will are His brothers and sisters (Luke 8:12). God does not intend to divide the home, but He places obedience before domestic harmony.

It is important to get alone in quietness with God so that you understand what pleases Him. The world’s thinking will mislead you more easily when you are not clear about what God desires. It broke Peter’s heart to know that the opinion of a servant girl had mattered more to him than the approval of his Lord! If the desire to appease others tempts you to compromise what you know God wants you to do, learn from Peter’s mistake. Determine that you will please your Lord regardless o the opinions of others.

Experiencing God Day-by-Day
Henry T. and Richard Blackaby

I vaguely recall when the phrase “What Would Jesus Do?” (WWJD) was “in”.  As I wasn’t a practicing Christian during that time it never really caught on with me.  I’ve always been a bit leary of getting caught up in catchy phrases tied to God, Christ or Christianity.  Call it marketing phobia I suppose.  Take Got-Fruit(?) for example… what’s that all about!?

Back on topic, I came across an interesting read this evening that posed the WWJD question.  Hat tip to Wickle.  The post titled: What Would Jesus Do If Invited to a Gay Wedding?  by John Shore,poses the question of how should a Christian respond to an invite to a gay wedding.  Shore a Christian, author and blogger presents his dilemma, to attend the wedding thereby enhancing his relationship with his gay friends or to not attend the wedding because of his Christian values and risk damaging the relationship.

At last count around 10 pm (CST) there were over 225 comments to Shore’s post so be forewarned, it’s a long read.  My initial reaction was to pop off with my own two cents worth, however Holy Spirit led restraint prevailed as I instead have opted to give my own commentary here.

I’ll start off first by stating that I’m not sure where the dilemma is, if taken from a Biblical perspective, meaning I wouldn’t attend if in the same situation. Shore presents some verses from Matthew 23 that appear to lead him to believe that the right thing to do is to attend the marital union between two gay people.  To keep focus on the topic at hand which is the propriety of a Christian attending a  “Gay wedding”, I’ll try to reiterate as much as possible that this post is not about attacking people who choose to submit to homosexual temptations nor their sexual orientation.  The point also is not to zone in on the fact that homosexuals are sinners, everyone is a sinner, however I do want to state that my opinions and views (shaped by my reading and understanding of the Bible) shouldn’t be confused with a universalistic type philosophy, world view or politically correct definition of tolerance either.   Just calling it as I see it.

As stated earlier, Shore uses the following verses from Matthew 23 to meditate upon:

Matthew 23:13,15,24
13″Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

15″Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.

23″Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

Those verses from Matthew 23 do seem to have “some” weight to them if the intention is to sell compassion and not being a hypocrite, however I think that in their context they aren’t really applicable to Shore’s dilemma.  Firstly those verses from Matthew seem to be directly pointed to the religious hypocrisy of teachers, I just don’t see them addressing Shore’s dilemma which in my opinion comes down to a question of spiritual integrity to God’s Word.  I’ll qualify my position with Scripture…

Again the question is, “As a Christian, should one attend the marital union/”wedding” between two homosexuals?”  From my perspective, the answer again is “no”, based on the following reasoning from Scripture.  Please note that some of the longer references are abbreviated (…) for the sake of post length, please refer to your Bible or the supplied link for completeness and context.  The bold text within the following verses is emphasized to make the Biblical point against how a gay marriage goes against God’s Word in the context of a Christian attending/supporting such union.

1. God defines marriage as the union between man and woman.

Genesis 2:18-24
18 The LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.” … 24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.  25 The man and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.

Matthew 19:3-6
3Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?” 4″Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ 5and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’[b]? 6So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.”  (Jesus speaking)

1st Corinthians 7:1-3
1Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry. 2But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. 3The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband.
(Foot note from the NIV [Zondervan} Study Bible regarding  “duty”: Married coupes should have regular sexual relations. Permanent abstention deprives the other partner of his or her natural right.)

In 1st Corinthians 11 Paul speaks of propriety in worship yet notice that he reiterates what God has already established as natural:

1st Corinthians 11:8-9
8For man…; 9neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.

2. God defines sexual immorality (the focus is on homosexuality explicitly, as it relates to Scripture invalidating gay marriage as being a recognized union by God)

Leviticus 18
20 ” ‘Do not have sexual relations with your neighbor’s wife and defile yourself with her.
21 ” ‘Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molech, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the LORD
22 ” ‘Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable. (See note on 1st Corinthians 7:1-2)

Romans 1:26-27
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

Galatians 5:16-21
16So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.  19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

See also Acts 15:20, & 1st Corinthians 6:12-20

My apologies for slamming you all with such a long post, I wanted to provide at least 3 Biblical points of view to address the players in marriage (man & woman) and marital sexuality as sub components.  I felt it important to make sure that marriage is properly understood from what God’s Word says, because as I read Scripture I can’t see how there could possibly be a “legal” wedding if it’s not qualified first.

Since by Biblical definition a gay wedding doesn’t resemble how and what God’s defines and designed (man and woman united as one in flesh), sexuality issues are thrown out because the first term isn’t met.
If one doesn’t agree with the first qualifier (marriage = man+woman, these are God’s rules by the way not mine),  arguing that a gay marriage does not imply sexual relationship runs into a problem then with what Paul says in:

1st Corinthians 7:3
3The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband.

So?  What would Jesus do if invited to a gay wedding, which should answer the question “What should I do if invited to a gay wedding?”  I think the quickest way to solve this riddle is to not suppose on what would Jesus do, but what did Jesus do?

• Jesus was locked in on doing the will of His Father - not pleasing man  Hebrews 10:5-7
• Jesus carried His own “cross” - alienation from friends might be yours
• Jesus didn’t let pressure from family or friends derail Him from his mission - salvation is through Christ, not popularity
• Jesus wasn’t intimidated by world views - He was sent here to save the world from itself
• Jesus deferred to Scripture: “It is written” See Luke 4:4,8; 19:46

Jesus… honored His Father, which to me means honoring Him in deed as well as with lips.  Taking part in an event or action that is contradictory to God’s Word undermines a Christian’s integrity/credibility.

Matthew 16:24-26
24Then Jesus said to his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it. 26What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?

Grace and peace be with you.