Got Fruit ?

A few days ago, I happened across a blog titled “Love Doesn’t Win” by Pastor Chris Elrod, that just really left an ill feeling on my heart. Before I press on, I need to just forewarn you that this post is going to be long. The post is going to reference quite a few verses, and I’m going to reference Pastor Elrod’s comments as well. I suggest that you open Pastor Elrod’s post in another tab if you have Firefox or IE 7 (Pastor Elrod’s site specifies in the Copyright Notice that “reproduction in it’s entirety” is not given without permission). Yea! for tabs!!!

I have no animosity toward Pastor Elrod, if I appear to be out of line, I welcome you to offer your criticism and reasoning. Furthermore, I don’t think that getting upset and then hurling negative comments at anyone is going to be constructive, nor persuasive. I you are agitated because of commentary on either of our parts, take some time to reflect on things before commenting.

Please keep these things in consideration as a Christian:

1. Are your actions glorifying God?
2. Are you emulating Christ in your behavior
3. Are your actions out of love - 1st Corinthians 13
4. Are your actions in line with Matthew 22:38-40 - The Greatest Commandment

Keep these things in consideration regarding Pastor Elrod:

1. Chris Elrod is a Pastor, his daily duties can be significantly more trying than the every day Joe’s, he has to deal with a multitude of personalities, issues and conflicts, just as a pastor.
2. Chris Elrod is married, so in addition to his duties to the Father, he also has to fulfill his duties as a husband
3. Chris Elrod’s life has been extremely busy this past month or so: a father that had cancer surgery, the passing of a gentleman that he admired, drastic changes within his church, just to name a few. Visit his blog and read up on him, before you draw a conclusion as to what he is or isn’t. Please don’t flame the guy.

Please keep these thoughts in consideration of what the author of this blog post is attempting to do and illustrate. I do believe that Pastor Elrod’s message is well intended, his use of words from a Scriptural perspective however; causes concern.

1. The purpose is to address the misrepresentation implied in the title of Pastor Chris Elrod’s blog post titled, “Love Doesn’t Win”.
2. The purpose of this post is to present and support my opinion and belief that “Love Does Win”
3. The purpose of this post is not to attack Pastor Elrod.

To help maintain some sense of order here’s a format key:

• Scripture: Romans 5:8 (NIV) Christ died for us.
• Got Fruit? comments: These are my words…
• Pastor Chris Elrod’s comments: For all of the loving on people

WHY I HAVE ISSUE, AS A CHRISTIAN WITH THE TITLE OF PASTOR ELROD’S POST.

I’ll start by addressing the title of Pastor Elrod’s post “Love Doesn’t Win”,as well as give the reasoning behind why, from a Christian view I do have issue(s).

ON LOVE

From a Biblical perspective, here’s a few things about love (1st John 4:8) as well as it’s statement on love (1st Corinthians 13:13), which I take literally as does Pastor Elrod according to his words, (second to last paragraph; bullet # 5).

Jeremiah 31:3 (NIV)
3 The LORD appeared to us in the past,saying: “I have loved you with an everlasting love; I have drawn you with loving-kindness.”

1st John 4:8 (NIV)
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love

1st Corinthians 13 (NIV)
“… 13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.”

Note: 1st Corinthians 13 begins “And now I will show you the most excellent of way.”. From verse 1 through verse 3 of 1st Corinthians 13, each verse presents a condition with a gift, or deed/work or act, but follows up by stating that without love as the foundation, these mean nothing. Verses 4 through 6 let us know what love is and how one can tell that it is operating in a Christians life. The validation is; the external manifestation of love. Verse 7 uses the word “always” in relation to protection, trust, hope and perseverance. Verse 8 clearly tells us that love never fails. I’d go on with the rest of 1st Corinthians 13, however, it moves in a different direction (a summary of where love moves and delivers you), which is just too mind blowing for me to address given the scope of this post.

ON WINNING
We all want to win! No one wants to lose at anything, it’s a sign of coming up short, or failing.

Proverbs 11:30
30 The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life, and he who wins souls is wise.

Definitions for “win”:

1. to finish first in a race, contest, or the like.
2. to succeed by striving or effort: He applied for a scholarship and won.
3. to gain the victory; overcome an adversary: The home team won.
4. to succeed in reaching (a place, condition, etc.), esp. by great effort: They won the shore through a violent storm.
5. to get by effort, as through labor, competition, or conquest: He won his post after years of striving.
6. to gain (a prize, fame, etc.).
7. to be successful in (a game, battle, etc.).
8. to make (one’s way), as by effort or ability.
9. to attain or reach (a point, goal, etc.).
10. to gain (favor, love, consent, etc.), as by qualities or influence.
11. to gain the favor, regard, or adherence of.
12. to gain the consent or support of; persuade (often followed by over): The speech won them over to our side.
13. to persuade to marry; gain in marriage.

WHY I HAVE HEARTACHE WITH WORDS USED IN THE TITLE

As a Christian we have to be careful of what we say, our words have a significant impact on the perceptions that people have about Christ and Christianity. Negative actions and words undermine our witness, our outward representation of Christ in us to the world.

Anyone of faith in a leadership position, needs to be even more careful of what and how things are said. Not only does their “flock”, view leadership with a different set of eyes than it does it’s peers; people look up to leaders in order to be guided not misguided. We do well enough on our own in that department. Words of leaders (spiritual and secular) tend to carry more weight, by virtue of the person being a leader.

So? Inadvertently or not what the title of Pastor Elrod’s Blog post implies is: “God doesn’t win”. What I’ve gathered from further reading into the Pastor’s blog is that frustration (fueled by disruptive doctrine of the Emergent movement influencing his church),prompted Pastor Elrod’s blog.

WHY I ASSERT AN OPPOSING VIEW TO: “Love doesn’t win truth does”.

Love can’t be truth..and therefore can’t win because it is based off of feeble human emotions and feelings. There are days that I don’t love people. There are even days when I don’t really love God all that much. There are times when the love fades and a struggle emerges. It is then that the knowledge of absolute truth takes root and it’s application in my life takes over. True love beyond ourselves can only come through knowing the Truth. It is only through knowing and applying Biblical truth that lets me love on people and God when I emotionally, spiritually, mentally or physically don’t feel like. That doesn’t come from a cheap fickle thing like love it comes from a life-encompassing thing like truth.

I do understand the Pastor’s differentiation between Scriptural love and Emergent’s Movement’s terminology of “love”, as described by Pastor Elrod. After chewing on the above comment by Pastor Elrod, here’s what comes to mind. Agape, unconditional love! Now, true that it is revelation, acceptance, submittal and application of Christ’s redeeming power. However examine John 3:16, examine it’s message, examine it’s structure, examine it’s context. What then is the source of the truth? Christ being truth and eternal was and is before the revelation of said truth, to man (John 1:1).

John 3:16

16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

ATTITUDE & MEASURING SUCCESS

The point here is not to dispute the Pastor’s stand on the “watered down love” of the Emergent Movement doctrine; it is to:

• show the attitude we need to have (Colossians 3:1-14 ), and 1st Peter 3:15-20
• portray how we need to look at measuring success in bringing people to Christ

“I guess my basic problem with “love wins” is that it is not working. It may work elsewhere, but it isn’t working in America. For all of the loving on people that the church is doing today not many are coming to Christ.”

1st Peter 3:15-20 (NIV)
15 But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, 16 keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander. 17 It is better, if it is God’s will, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil. 18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

• But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord.

  Seeing this portion of the verse caused a moment of pause, a moment to meditate on what it means, to truly in your heart believe that Christ is Lord. What this tells me, the aspiring Christ imitator, is that I too need to take on the attitude that Christ took on, of realizing and expecting to be used by God, for the betterment of others. In the Old Testament times, the people we’re under law, which was truth, still they did not all repent, enter the New Testament salvation by the grace of God. Does this mean that a “New Deal” guarantees, that all will come to Christ? I don’t think so, but for whatever reason that God has designed, it is the best plan, it is His plan.

• • Romans 5:8

    But God demonstrates his own love for us in this; While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

• Hope -

  Definition of “hope”

  To wish for something with expectation of its fulfillment. Archaic To have confidence; trust.

  Hope, to my knowledge has never implied fulfillment of expectations. 2nd Peter 3:9 is used as an example of “hope” (God being patient, not wanting anyone to perish).

• • 2nd Peter 3:9

    The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance

  • Romans 2:4

    4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads you toward repentance?

  • Galatians 5:22-23

    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

    (This verse pertains to believers; I used it to express a correlation of the Holy Spirit operating in a believer, in that it may cause a non-believer to question: ” What’s going on in his/her life that causes them to be joyful so much?”, thus an opportunity to witness.)

• It is better, if it is God’s will, to suffer for doing good -

  The definition of “suffer”

• 1. to undergo or feel pain or distress: The patient is still suffering.
  2. to sustain injury, disadvantage, or loss: One’s health suffers from overwork. The business suffers from lack of capital/
  3. to undergo a penalty, as of death: The traitor was made to suffer on the gallows.
  4. to endure pain, disability, death, etc., patiently or willingly.to undergo, be subjected to, or endure (pain, distress, injury, loss, or anything unpleasant): to suffer the pangs of conscience.
  5. to undergo or experience (any action, process, or condition): to suffer change.
  6. to tolerate or allow: I do not suffer fools gladly.

• For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God - It is my understanding and conviction that God’s plan is to use whomever He pleases in whatever capacity He deems necessary to accomplish the gathering of His lost sheep. I won’t even pretend to try to comprehend to what extremes His will is over my life, but being that God did send His son for the exact purpose of bringing people to Him, I can take comfort in knowing that Jesus doesn’t ask of us, anything that He hasn’t already done.
• God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved - We need to remember that God’s sense of timing and purpose is not the same as what we tend to think. God has been around forever, it therefore seems to me that one man’s lifetime of waiting for results then would be of no concern to God if it took that long to have another soul saved by His workings, His design and timing.
• • 2nd Peter 3:9

    The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish,but everyone to come to repentance

ADDRESSING MISCELANEOUS COMMENTS

“Love is patient and kind at times.”

I lean toward the childlike naive approach that when God has perfected my heart I will be not a more patient person, but a patient person, not kinder, but always kind; this is what I hope for.

Colossians 3:1-14 (NIV)
“…14 And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.”

There is definitely evidence of loving kindness in the Word but there are also many examples of loving toughness in Scripture. In contrast truth is the one constant throughout the entire inspired writings found in God’s Word.”.

I agree that “truth” is a constant, just not the only constant throughout the Holy Bible. I’m addressing this comment because the absoluteness of the statement is in my opinion; opposition to Scripture. Go back and read 1st Corinthians 13 again. How about God,eternity, God’s righteousness, God’s promises or God’s love for His children as well, are these things not constant? These are fundamentals of which we rest or hope on.

Definitions of “constant”

• not changing or varying; uniform; regular; invariable: All conditions during the three experiments were constant.
• continuing without pause or letup; unceasing: constant noise.
• regularly recurrent; continual; persistent: He found it impossible to work with constant interruption.
• faithful; unswerving in love, devotion, etc.: a constant lover.
• steadfast; firm in mind or purpose; resolute.
• Obsolete. certain; confident.
• something that does not or cannot change or vary.
• Physics. a number expressing a property, quantity, or relation that remains unchanged under specified conditions.

Mathematics. a quantity assumed to be unchanged throughout a given discussion.

“Faith without works is dead. Works without truth is pointless. I’ve read the back of the Book Truth wins!!!”.

Maybe so, but how about works without love?

Romans 2:4
4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads you toward repentance?

I want to bring up 1st Corinthians 3:5-9 as Scripture to consider in this respect; as God sees fit, it may be that we have just a purpose to plant a seed in a person’s life, yet someone else is to come along to nurture it. To what extent planting a seed goes could surely be debated, perhaps it is in representation of truth alone or with works, perhaps it is in the way you as a Christian conducts yourself around non-believers Monday through Friday.

1st Corinthians 3:5-9
5 What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe-as the Lord has assigned to each his task. 6 I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God made it grow. 7 So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8 The man who plants and the man who waters have one purpose, and each will be rewarded according to his own labor. 9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.

Truth can be suppressed, truth can be ignored.

Romans 1:18 (NIV)
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness.

Romans 1:32 (NIV)
Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

I don’t know how or when Pastor Elrod proposes to present the truth to people that are both physically and spiritually in need, that is something that I am sure the Lord will reveal or has revealed to him. In whatever way that God has designed for Pastor Elrod, I hope and pray for much success in winning as many people as he can to love and know Christ.

I want to restate that the point of this post is:

• to address what I feel is a misrepresentation implied in the title of Pastor Chris Elrod’s blog post titled, ” Love Doesn’t Win”.
• to present and support reasons and belief that “Love Does Win”
• not to attack Pastor Elrod.

I’ll close with two pieces of scripture, the first to reiterate the mightiness of God per the words of Jesus Himself and the importance of doing your own digging. The second is stand by my view, my belief, that “Love Does Win”. The context of Matthew 22:29, is that Jesus was addressing a question proposed by the Sadducees concerning marriage and the resurrection. The Sadducees were attempting to trap Jesus with words from the Law, to cause Him to contradict himself.

Matthew 22:29
Jesus replied: “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God.”

1st Corinthians13
” 13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.”

Three whole parts but all of one…
the Father, Holy Spirit and the Son
In-dwelt Spirit, after Flesh and Bone
Exalted by God at the Right of His Throne
Be it God’s will, man’s sin, atoned
Our walk of faith, never walked alone
Love thy Father, then neighbor as self
Deny worldly riches, seek God’s wealth
Founded in the Word, manifested in fruit
Love in thy heart…may deep run it’s roots

Grace and peace be with you.

C.A. Stallworth